What does it take to attract enterprise SaaS clients with Alexander Baron from Top.Legal

Product Stories
What does it take to attract enterprise SaaS clients with Alexander Baron from Top.Legal
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Summary

Attracting enterprise clients often involves an entirely different approach than for smaller clients. What does it take to lure the big fish?

Today’s guest is Alexander Baron, co-founder of Top.Legal, a SaaS tool that helps with smart collaboration on contract frameworks and negotiating agreements with clients.

Episode Highlights/Topics: 

  • Automation: How and why Alexander got started in SaaS after banking career
  • Developing Work: After learning one programming language, master the others 
  • Role/Responsibilities: Alexander markets and sells products, idea, company to clients 
  • Clients’ Role: Effectively tell company what they require and what solution they need
  • Best Investment: Get out there, talk to people, get their feedback, make software better 
  • Team Effort: Who to convince to buy software – champion, budgeter, decision-maker
  • Additional Services: Expect bigger clients to ask about support and integrations
  • Onboarding: Train clients to improve and achieve customer success
  • Custom Features: Bigger clients want bigger problems solved and benefit other clients
  • Finding Balance: Make the client happy and provide value in the long run 
  • Startup Founders: Stick with your roadmap and don’t go down a road that you regret
  • Contracts: Understand and communicate clients’ needs and keep it simple, not complex   

Resources/Links:

Top.Legal

Trustshoring

Read the transcript:

Victor [00:00] Attracting enterprise clients often requires an entirely different approach than for smaller clients. So what does it take to lure the big fish? Today’s guest is Alexandra Baron co-founder of Top Legal, a SaaS tool that helps with smaller collaboration on contract frameworks and with negotiating agreements with clients.

Victor [00:35]: Alex, welcome to the show.

Alexander [00:36]: Thank you, Victor. Thank you for having me.

Victor [00:38]: Totally. How did you end up in SaaS? Always a great question.

Alexander [00:43]: It’s a rather long story. So ending up in SaaS was not originally my plan. I set out to work in banking for quite some time. I started off in the early 2000s in investment banking. That used to be a cool thing back then. Now it’s not so cool anymore. Things have changed. And I started off as a banker in capital markets and with that always comes a requirement to automate things. And that was my intro into getting into how software can help to automate things.

[01:16] And that carried me into my career, where I thought as a banker, you, you need to work with lots of Contracts. You need to work with lawyers. And back then I thought this can go a lot faster than drafting a contract from scratch every time and paying lots of monies to lawyers. And from that, I thought there must be some sort of software to automate the whole process without going from scratch every time. And at some point in my life, I thought I need to set up my own company, run my own show and move outside the bank. So that was basically my journey.

Victor [01:49]: How long was that ago?

Alexander [01:50]: I think the first step I took outside the banking world was in 2014, so quite some time ago, and then I started off with a company that started matching lawyers with companies. And then from that we moved into, Hey, when you match a lawyer with a company, why not go a step further and start producing the first contract draft because back then we had GPR coming in and from that we already picked up automatically generating policies?

[02:19] And then we thought, if we can do this with privacy policies, you can do this with any contract. And we started off with quite a slim software back then, that was only able to generate a certain contract that we sort of say pre-framed initially. But then we realized, well, we need to make this open and make this open to any contract. And then you don’t want developers to work on the setup of a contract, but companies need to come in and edit their contracts themselves. So without the help of a developer, and that was the idea to set this up into a template data term and from that into contract automation and here we are Top Legal, so that was cut some time ago.

Victor [03:04]: Very interesting. Are you technical yourself? Do you code?

Alexander [03:08]: Yeah, I started off and I still love to do it and I think there’s a certain point, every now and then I look back into the code now, then the project has move on to a certain level. But I started off coding at the university level. Also in banking we’re thought, well, this company evaluation can all be automated with a click of a button. And that was my entry route into developing work. Because I thought doing everything from scratch just takes a lot of time.

[03:35] Every time it’s the same work, so why not automated? And we that I thought, wow, this is amazing. You can do so many things. Because back then I thought, well, developing is a closed door, but once you really get your mind behind it, it opens up so many different opportunities, it’s really great. And once you understand one program language, effectively, I mean developers are saying, well, they’re all different.  But effectively object-oriented programming languages are quite similar in the way they’re structured.

[04:04] They use different keywords. They have different functionalities. Yes. And some do things better than others, but effectively once you can speak one programming language, you are able to master the others as well with a bit of practice after some time.

Victor [04:20]: Of course, it’s about the practice in the end. How less, or how much you need the documentation in the end. Day to day, but what do you do today? Do you still code or how big is the company right now?

Alexander [04:32]: We are a team of about 20 people, it’s kind of growing a lot. So I don’t know exactly. I think it’s about 20, a bit more than that. I get to court every now and then, but I just get to court and look at the court from now and then to structure our roadmap, I think, and to see how much work is actually required. But at the moment I’m currently in sales. I’m selling what we developing at the end of the day, I’m doing marketing work, selling the company.

[04:58] I’m also a co-founder, but that doesn’t really mean anything because whatever you co-founded today, nothing is really about selling the company, selling the products, marketing the products, marketing the idea, marketing the why, what do we stand for? So that’s what I’m doing currently.

Victor [05:12]: Very good. Yeah, absolutely. And how did you get into sales? Because that’s another learned approach again and that’s always very fascinating.

Alexander [05:21]: Yeah. I think at some point in the life of the company, you really need to get out and tell other people what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. If you’re not doing that, you’re being stranded with maybe a great product, maybe not so great product because it don’t speak to clients and it should effectively be the clients telling you what they require and what solution they need. And if you’re not doing this, you’re not selling anything, waiting for the client to knock on your door because you build something is not going to happen.

[05:51] So at some point, my Korean banking shaped that process with someone with the ability to speak to other people and stand in front of seniors, marketing the product was required. And at some point the logical decision that I need to move forward into that position. And I enjoy it very much.

Victor [06:11]: I assume that there’s also a difference depending on what client you’re working with, right? Because one of the SaaS mantras, maybe you don’t agree with it, but is the self-service model. This is what SaaS supposedly is all about. You literally just do a marketing funnel and some marketing materials, and then people just randomly sign up to it and start using it. And you don’t involve a sales person at all. Would you say that also smaller SaaS companies should invest in sales or is that more towards the bigger client’s enterprise segment?

Alexander [06:45]: I would say definitely. I mean, at some point some clients, you have a certain cost to acquire each client. And if the set revenue per client is little then personal selling is probably not the thing that you should be doing. But if the deal size is sufficiently large, that with one client, you can subsidize a salary of a sales person already. You should definitely do this, to build up sales.

[07:12] Having said that at the beginning, it’s absolutely vital to go out and speak to people. Why? Because you need to understand what’s happening at the clients and what processes are they running. Is actually my software fitting with their processes. Are we doing something right? Are we doing something wrong? What problem are we actually solving, understanding the problem? And does the software fit with the problem? If you’re selling software, that is. So it’s absolutely required at the very beginning.

[07:40] Founder says is absolutely essential and that’s the best investment you can have initially. Get out there, talk to people, get their feedback, collect the feedback, make the software better, whether you then continue with a Salesforce really depends on the ticket size of your software. If you are able to sell your software for couple of thousand euros per piece a year, then, well, you should definitely invest into a Salesforce if it’s 10, 20 in the hundreds, maybe not so much, but it really depends on the product and the revenue model that you following.

Victor [08:14]: So a couple thousand euros dollars per year for an account, it’s something that starts making sense to actually invest in hiring a sales person. That’s interesting. That’s great. And starting for what size does a client generally require a different approach, also from their own expectations or how they buy, how they work?

Alexander [08:36]: It depends on the company, but usually when the company gets into the hundreds of employees, it usually requires. And if you’re selling a product, that [08:47 inaudible] say is efficiently large ticket, you need to have some boxes cleared and getting these boxes cleared requires to speak to different set of people in the organization. You need to speak to someone with a budget to clear that, tick the box that he required to get into the organization.

[09:09] You need to speak to IT, to security. So at various points in the organization to get, if it’s smaller companies, decision are usually taken by a single person by two people, there’s not so much selling required, the larger the organization is, the more people you need to massage on the [09:30 inaudible].

Victor [09:33]: So who’s usually involved? You said IT obviously to integrate security. Obviously the decision-maker of the department, you want to sell to whatever that might be for your SaaS. Maybe some sort of champion that initially brought this up. Anybody else?

Alexander [09:50]: Absolutely. So what you said, I think initially the champion. The champion is also the person who tells you exactly who you need to convince. That’s one of the most important job of a sales person really to find out, who makes the decision, who do we need to convince, what is the next step? So there’s not a set number of person that you need to convince, but is really asking a champion or the person you’re selling to, who else do we need to convince?

[10:18] And who is the budget holder, who is the economic buyer? And that’s something you need to figure out in sales. Effectively is initially asking lots of questions and in good sales talks, ideally you wouldn’t talk more than your client. There are tools out there that help you measure exactly that, how much your share of the conversation you’re taking up and how much is taken up by the client speaking to you, because you asked very intelligent questions. So ideally the client talks a lot more and you just nudge the person in giving you the right information.

Victor [10:53]: Interesting. And so when we’re going through a champion, when we’re speaking about a champion, that usually means we’re kind of moving upstream. Like we convince someone, probably who’s going to use the tool, who will benefit from it. And we want them to believe this is a great product and help them convince or convince on ourselves, but with their help, someone in higher hierarchy that this is something that should be bought for the company. Is that the best way, or does it happen that you sell directly to the C-level executives like you would in a startup maybe as a client?

Alexander [11:34]: So, yeah, I mean again, this is about asking the champion, what the process usually entails and who the decision-maker is. But ideally if you want to have the champion to do the internal selling for you, you need to smart that person up, provide all the information that you figured out that person requires as part of the sales process. And ideally, if you find out that your product, I mean, this is also part of the sales process, understanding what the problem is and understanding whether your product fits the current problem.

[12:05] So you ask your champion, you find out there’s apparently a need for that solution that you are providing. And then you’re moving ahead from that into a situation where you present to other stakeholders in the organization who are going to use your software in a pursuit of healing that particular problem, and you need to have them on board. So eventually it happens. You speak to one person, this is your champion. The person takes another person on board and says, look at this.

[12:35] This seems to be a good solution for our problem. Then other people think I’m coming to the meeting think, ah, yeah, I also need to be part of this. And people realize, maybe this is also something for HR and more and more people join into the whole conversation. And you also need to take them on board and consider their needs either separately, if possible, or in that joint meeting.

Victor [12:57]: Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I meant to ask because obviously it’s great to have a champion. So this is what I should try to find out first, who could be a good champion for me, if I don’t know anybody in a certain company and I don’t first reach out to the higher level. I do try to find a champion within, is that correct?

Alexander [13:17]: It works both ways. So you could ideally if you have a warm recommendation or you find some receptive C level officer that is interested in your organization, you have a curiosity gap and that person wants to look at your product or your service and feels there’s a need that service. So that’s one way of convincing those people, and they would work as a quasi champion. But at some point they would hand you down some sort of product manager that looks after the problem.

[13:48] But coming with the recommendation of a C level, officer helps tremendously. Again, you need to then build up another champion, understand the problem, really? Where do they stand? What is the project? Who is on the project team? Where do they currently stand? What’s the next step? Still need to do a lot, of work, but it helps being handed down from a C level office that opens a lot of doors.

[14:13] Because if you start lower down in the organization, you need to do a bit more work, ask around, understand what the problem is. Maybe you’re not hitting the right people. If you’re talking about organizations at 10, 20,000 people large, maybe you’re talking to the wrong person, maybe you’re talking to the right person. You need to understand where the organization has the problem.

[14:34] It takes you a couple of calls to get to the right person. If you start from the top, it’s a bit easier, because you are being handed directly to the project team who is looking after that particular problem. So doors tend to be a bit wide open than when you come from the bottom. When you come from the bottom, gather information, speak to many people, understand what the problem is, speak to the users or potential users of your software.

[14:57] Try to understand what their problem is because you can use that information. When you speak to decision-maker, Hey, I spoke to A, B and C and I understand what the problem in their current daily business or daily routine is. And then you can demonstrate that you have really put some thought and some effort into it and you understand the problem.

[15:18] So either way works well. Going from the bottom up requires a bit more work. But it’s not wasted because that information you require anyway and that information you take from those people, working with your software can then be used to again, improve your software and improve your service. So either way is good.

Victor [15:40]: Nice. And when I now think of a small self-service SaaS, where someone just puts in their email credit card, checks the box with the terms of service, doesn’t read. Signs up, done. That’s literally it. What additional services would a large client usually expect from a software company apart from just the software itself?

Alexander [16:05]: So, that’s what usually one of the questions that you need to clear with them initially. So asking what sort of services do you require from us? From experience, eventually get handed down if you pass all these questions and if you answer all these questions and people say, yeah, we want to work with you. You usually have to go through a clearance with legal, with IT. And everyone who is using that service.

[16:29] And with that being asked about service level, what sort of service do you provide? Do you have a help desk? Do you have a documentation and also most importantly, do you have integration into other systems? That’s also one of the more important questions. If you put one piece of software into a large organization, it’s not a Greenfield investment that they’re doing, it’s a brown field.

[16:55] There are many other software applications in place already. And with those you need to communicate. And that’s also part of the sales process that you need to figure out, what processes are in place. How are they currently being used? What information is being passed between those services? Are they communicating already or is it a manual process? In many cases it’s actually a manual process.

[17:17] And then it’s really about understanding how much work is required there. Could my software maybe help to alleviate that work? So that would be another selling point that you can bring into the next meeting. So I understand you have a problem here because you entering data manually from one system to another and maybe the same information twice. So you have a duplication of data, lots of work required here.

[17:37] So yeah, business integrations, integration in other system, your data pipeline is totally required aside from having a help desk, having a service desk that helps those people working with the application is totally essential.

Victor [17:52]: So yeah. Integrations, especially probably also some training or something like that. Do you do that often?

Alexander [18:02]: Training. Yeah. Onboarding definitely. You need to have some customer success in place. When a client starts rolling out, initially you’re going to have a few people working with that. So you need to onboard those people, give them a sort of training if it’s not really intuitive and show them how your software is different to what they’re doing initially, for example, instead of entering data here and there, you just need to click the button there and you onboard those people and show them how they can improve the process. Yep, training is also important.

Victor [18:32]: And does it happen with you guys, for example. Does it happen a lot that a large client requests a custom feature? How do you deal with that?]:

Alexander [18:41]: That happens every now and then. So custom features happen and they happen all the time and it’s also a good thing and we need to understand why is this happening? Maybe the problem is it’s slightly different or maybe you haven’t tackled the problem with your current software fully. So that would be a product improvement. So you need to understand how big is the problem.

[19:05] What’s the nature of the problem? Is it a problem that other clients have as well? And then you need to decide whether you’re going to develop it or turn the client away and say at the moment we can’t do this for whatever reason. So in this scenario, it’s very important to keep well documented, well structured product roadmap and only develop those features that are absolutely necessary and to the benefit of other clients as well, or fit into your product vision.

[19:35] And you can entice other prospects with that product extension, with that feature. So I wouldn’t say yes to everything that comes back from the client. I would then go, what are you trying to achieve with that feature? Because usually people tell you something, but you need to dig deeper. What is the underlying problem? What are you trying to solve with that feature? And mostly a workaround or some feature that is already in your software can help.

[20:01] Maybe they haven’t discovered it yet, but also maybe it’s something. It is really a problem that everyone has and you haven’t fully discovered it yet. And this particular person has stepped forward and voiced that concern and brought this forward to you. So that’s usually also greatly appreciated when people come back with feedback.

Victor [20:19]: And I see some SaaS companies are open to doing completely custom feature sets that nobody else would be interested in using. And they’re just normally charging the client like a software development company would, is that something you consider because it sounds like you wouldn’t do that?

Alexander [20:38]: Mostly not. We have a product vision. We have a product roadmap, if it fits our product roadmap. And if it’s on there, we would develop it. But we are not a software developer. That’s something. If they require some custom-made solution that maybe sits inbetween two services, we would then go, Hey, we need a specialized developer for this. And this is outside our scope. This is a different software. We can recommend LA LA LA and we need some help from another party.

[21:05] We would always go and develop only those features that are to the benefit of our roadmap and the benefit to more than just one client. It’s really a budget decision. And that you have to consider when you take this decision, how much money are you gaining from this feature, how much money does it cost you? Because the client is not going to be happy if you develop one feature, particularly for that issue.

[21:30] But the rest of the application just gets bogged down because you put all your development resources into development of one feature. So you need to balance that. And making the client happy in the long run and provide value in the long run is the most important thing that you can do, rather than just providing a single feature that might not really help the client in the long run. So it’s really a case that you need to consider every time that you are thinking about that step.

Victor [21:59]: It makes a lot of sense, because it is about opportunity cost. When you develop a SaaS, with every feature you release, you want to maximize the value that you receive for it. Ideally with a lot of payments from a lot of clients and here, even if it gets paid by the client, you are slowing down on your actual roadmap that is supposed to provide more value. Maybe I don’t know, in the beginning, some people probably do that to gain a big client. Maybe that’s worth it in that case. But I do agree with you that makes a lot of sense.

Alexander [22:37]: Absolutely. Absolutely. You wouldn’t want to go down this road, you get specialist people in. Initially, yeah. If you try to get some bigger clients, yeah, consider it, but also put the product vision into perspective and don’t go down a road where you actually don’t want to be or regret being [22:57 inaudible]. I’ve heard this from other founders where initially, I mean, it usually happens in the first years of the being of a startup that people start developing something for a particular client.

[23:10] But then in the long run, they don’t want to maintain this anymore. So they have custom instances only for that client and then maintaining this takes a lot of work. And only if there’s good money and you need this money, you want to do this. Otherwise I would recommend stick with the roadmap.

Victor [23:27] That makes a lot of sense. Speaking of the hoops you need to jump through again when making a sale, you mentioned that one of them is Legal. Since you guys work in the legal field. I think this i a great question to ask what compliance or legal teams, what do they usually look at? What contract and frameworks do I need to have ready?

Alexander [23:50]: That’s a very good question. I think also from a sales perspective, this is totally important to come into a meeting with a client with a full set of contracts in place. Because you don’t want to end up looking stupid in front of a client, if someone asks you for data processing agreement, that is if you’re processing client data and you then need to ask the client what a data processing agreement is, is probably not the best thing to have, bu for them, it’s really a tick the box.

[24:20] Whether you’re dealing with the data that you’re processing in a diligent manner. You don’t want to be wasteful with resources or with the data or negligence, et cetera. So that’s something you definitely need to avoid when dealing with those larger client, it’s a tick the box for them. You need to show them a proper DPA, a proper privacy policy, a proper contract in place. It also needs to look professional.

[24:45] So if you show them a, a pump flat with a few bullet points on that, you’re not going to make the win. You need to have a well structured process with headers that is easy to read. And as I said, needs to look professional and you need to get these boxes picked. So yeah, from this set of contracts that you need, a proper contract and proper licensing contract, if you are in the SaaS business.

[25:07] A DPA, if you’re processing data with that the technical organization measures needs to be in place, a data privacy. And if you’re not regulating all the terms and conditions in your license agreement, you need to have some sort of general decencies sitting somewhere that look professional, that cover all the points, I think that’s the minimum requirements.

Victor [25:28]: And a lot of people speak about service level agreements. So the service level would then be defined in the master agreement?

Alexander [25:39]: Yeah, that’s one way of doing that. You can either have this in the licensing agreement. You can also take this out as a separate document. Either or is fine, you just need to have it, showing what sort of service level you provide to the client. That’s what we talked earlier. When you go through the compliance process, when you say service desk available, how can you reach them? What sort of incidents processes have you got in place? What’s your backup procedure, all these sort of things need to be in place to convince them?

Victor [26:14]: And does it help to have any certificates, like great-looking badge? I’m not speaking about the trust pilot thing, but more about some compliance certificates on security and data protection. Is that something that helps or is it even necessary to get audited by firms or something like that?

Alexander [26:37]: Yes and no again, it really depends who you’re selling to. Initially, as a startup, I wouldn’t say you need them outright. We had occasions where I’ve been asked for the ease of certificates and those sort of things. Get this if you have FinTech and if you’re selling to banks and the sorts, you might need it, but bear in mind there’s a cost coming with that because the ease certification and process or whatever you require from Bathin or from the bank requires you to invest time and money in the whole process.

[27:12] And if the client is not explicitly asking for it, I would not do it at the very early stage. We have clients that have been asked this process. Asked to provide those certificates, but only at the later stage. So if you can postpone this, get a deal sign, put this as a requirement in the deal, put a deadline if a client requires it. And if you can’t avoid it and then deliver the certificate. Once you are certain enough that you have enough money to pay for this, you have clients paying and ideally this is what you have clients for.

[27:49] You have enough clients to pay for that certificate because these things cost 50, 100,000 Euro and only for the consultant on this, not considering your internal cost that you bear, taking people from their daily routine into working on the certificates, writing down all these things. So if you’re not required, don’t do it.

Victor [28:08]: But that’s actually a smart thing to do, like sign it, put it as a contractual requirement, but don’t do it right out. Have a guarantee that the deal is signed and then only fulfill it. Because again, it’s just a check the box thing. So if it’s there, it’s there, that makes a lot of sense. You have any other tricks of your sleeve, how you can enable, sales people or anybody else to short circuit that contracting stage and help with that?

Alexander [28:35]: Yeah, I think the most important thing, is that A, you understand what the need is, that you communicate with. I mean the general sales process. Ask a lot of questions, understand what the need is. And also when it comes to contracting, the contract needs to mirror those needs and needs to be in a reader performer, don’t make it too complex. Don’t make it too burdensome for someone to read the contract, have a need structure.

[28:59] Don’t wonder off of the structure, don’t break the structure, have neat headers, have a proper wording in the head that really signifies what you’re talking about in the clause underneath and guide the person, reading your contract through the contract, make it easy for them. Don’t write contracts that are written by lawyers for lawyers.

[29:18] Usually you don’t find any lawyers in the whole process. So don’t use complex language when you can avoid it and make it easy for the other person to read it. If it’s complex, it usually ends up with legal and our clients have about two legals for every 500 employees. So they’re really bogged down with all sorts of other work and really don’t like reading oncoming contracts and due to diligence on a minor supply that really is not a big ticket for them.

[29:46] So make it easy for the person on the other side to read your contract, understand it and make it totally transparent what you’re selling. Don’t hide anything in a contract and be fair with it. There’s a thing called fluency in contract terms. The easier it is to read and the easier the contract looks on the eyes, the easier it is for the other person to sign the whole thing.

[30:13] And also try to avoid going into negotiation, unless you have a million or 2 million per ticket. Yeah, then you want to negotiate. But usually negotiation holds the whole thing up. So try to observe how people react to the contract. And if you’re getting the same comments over and over again, why not change a clause in a way.

[30:36] When you’re dealing with a certain counterpart, then you put the softer clause in and don’t negotiate that because you get the same comments again, and they’re adamant on changing that. So why waste time? Just make it easy for them.

Victor [30:49]: That makes a lot of sense. So you’re saying you can actually, even with big clients, completely skip legal by making an easy to read contract?

Alexander [30:59]:  Maybe not, again it depends on your organization, but legal is also busy. If it lends with legal, it looks professional. All the points are there. It’s easy to read. It’s easier on the eye. It’s also easier for them to pass it through. If it’s a contract where you have mistakes, typos, avoid typos at all costs. If it comes with a weird structure, weird headers, all over the place. You break the structure, you go from subheaders into a different structure, then don’t do it.

[31:28] Just keep one flow, make it look professional as any other sales document. That’s how we basically see the whole process. Try to make the legal step part of your sales process. Why is that? Because the legal is the last or should be seen as the last step of the sales process. If you’re neglecting that paradigm, it means when you lose clients on these contract signing step, or it takes longer than usual in this contractual process step, you lose a lot of money.

[32:01] And if the client then says no on that contract step, because you’re not ticking all the boxes, your contract doesn’t look professional, you’re wasting time negotiating. Then you lose a lot of money because getting the client through the funnel to the legal step takes a lot of time, usually depending on the software that you’re selling.

[32:21] And you really, really don’t want to lose any clients in this last step, because there is many, many hours of your sales organization lost on moving that client through the funnel, only to lose him or her on that contract step. So absolutely avoid it.

Victor [32:37]: Totally. And how can Top Legal help with that entire process?

Alexander [32:42]: Well, I think the most important thing here is to see this last step as part of the sales process and with that your stance changes completely. We make contracts emotional because the whole sales process is an emotional process. You speak to humans, you use lots of colors, you have this marketing process it’s colorful, it’s fast.

[33:07] And then all of a sudden at the end of the day, when you come to this contract process, you end up with this dry black and white contract with no emotions, sitting down at the desk with a big [33:19 inaudible] that talks about you as an organization that no one is really interested because everyone is interested about reading about themselves. And I think this is something we can make it a lot easier. Putting more information about the product about the organization, explain things.

[33:37] And Top Legal takes it exactly there, taking the legal step into the sales process, making contracts emotional, explaining [33:45 clauses], making it fast to explain, also making this negotiation process that usually takes hours and weeks, very easy in one flow and then getting the client to sign very quickly by embedding that electronic signature directly on the contract.

[34:02] So it’s really one click done sign and you’re moving through the whole contract process in hours instead of weeks and months. That’s the whole deal. So you have more time selling your product rather than negotiating and looking after your contract.

Victor: [34:19] That is very helpful. So where can people find out more about the product and about you?

Alexander [34:25]: I think the first contact point is usually our website. We have lots of information there. We have our blog where we talk about all these things, how we can make contracts better, easy on the eye, how we can structure contracts. How, if you don’t want to work with a contract lifecycle management software how you can use maybe Excel to keep an eye on your contracts, keep an eye on your parameters. These sort of things have lots of information, valuable information there sitting to be read. And yeah, book a demo with us and talk to us and we’ll look how we can help you with your contracting process.

Victor [35:07]: Awesome. This was really, really helpful. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Alexander [35:12]: Thank you for all these interesting questions. Thank you very much.

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